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I have recently ordered a tc 15 kit and am starting the tidious task of selecting a speaker(s) I have a few questions

1. Using an alnico speaker how does the speaker wattage rating affect the sound? Would I notice the saught after compression if I use say a 50 watt speaker? Or should I get a 15 watt speaker? What is everyone else using wattage wise?

2. As a follow up if I got 2 15 watt speakers would this affect how the speakers compress as apposed to one 15 watt speaker?

3. If I got two of the same speaker how does this change the sound, i.e. just louder or is the some other affect/mojo thats added?

4. This is the last question and is related to #3 is it recommened to go with two different speakers either two different alnicos/1 alnico 1 ceramic or both the same?

Thanks in advance for all replies.

I'm using a Hellatone 30 (Celestion G12H30, 30 Watt) and Hellatone 60 (Celestion Vintage 30, 60 Watt) with my TC-15.

It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but I generally try to use a speaker that's capable of 50 to 100 percent more power than the amp driving it, although in the case of multiple speakers, you can under-rate a bit, since each one only "sees" a portion of the amp's power.

Monte

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Monte

I would not be using a 15 watt speaker in a 15 watt amp. I would be looking for at least a 25 watt speaker.

Unless you have a speaker you really like the tone of, I think that it's better to mix 2 different speakers. Also one can be alnico and the other ceramic or neo type magnets. That way you are getting the best of both worlds so to speak.

If you have 2 speakers as opposed to just one it may not be any louder but the sound is dispersed better so it will seem louder and cover a greater area.

Sometimes a higher rated speaker may be a very little darker in tone but not much.

As to speakers sharing the amps output load, I think that it only applies if you wire the speakers in series. If you wire them in parallel, they all need to be greater than the output of the amp. With the TC15 I would think that a speaker rated at 25 watts or more should be fine.

The original Vox AC30 amps were rated at 30 watts output and with the 2 Celestion blues rated at 15 watts each and wires in series, these amps are famous for blowing speakers.

All things being equal, one extra speaker increase the sound level by 3 db. Same as doubling the power of the amp.

We like to mix an Alnico & Ceramic (the bomb in a Tone Tubby 212). As said, you get the best of both worlds. Those speakers are 40W but for sure a 25 watt speaker would handle the power from a TC-15 or 18 watt amp. Also, you get some nice harmonics and dispersion from having two speakers.

Drawback, of course, is the size & weight! So think 210s!

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Since the amp can only deliver a certain amount of power, that available power is divided among the speakers, regardless of whether they're wired in series or parallel. The "division" can get a little tricky in the case of series/parallel wiring but, in any case, no single speaker will be driven with the full power of the amp. Here's a link to a an excellent (and downloadable) impedance/power calculator:

http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/impedance.html

Monte

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Monte

Thanks for all the replies what 10" speakers would you guys recomend? i've looked at blue pups, silvers, and the vintage ones.

Pros cons of getting say a ceramic silver and an alnico silver or a alnico blue and ceramic silver?

Are the ceramic and alnico versions of the speakers going to be different enough or should I consider mixing different versions?

A little off track but...

what tubes are you guys using (brands)?

Monte, thanks for the correction. I must have remembered incorrectly. It may have been more of an opinion that a fact that I read. Either way the correct info is out there and that's what's improtant.

Also to Coco thanks for the info on the 3db increase with the extra speakers.

Appears that I not having a good forum day.

Chuck

Chuck,

If I had a nickel for every time I've mis-quoted, mis-stated, or just plain handed out bad info, I could order at least a couple of amps from Coco!

The nice thing about forums like this is that nobody knows everything, so we can share, and discuss, and by the time we've gone over it enough, each of us has gained a little more knowledge. Truth be told, my electronics theory is about as strong as my ability to play leads, and I've been doing both for long enough to be much better than I am at either!

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Monte

Thanks Monte,

I know what yiou mean about playing ability. That why I'm always working towards improving my tone.

At least I'll sound good when I play a wrong note.

Chuck

I cannot answer all of your questions but I can say that when I use a single speaker, I use an Alnico almost all of the time. When I use more than one speaker, I tend to prefer a blend of ceramic with Alnico speakers. To me, having 2 alnicos sounds great for a while, but its almost too much of a good thing if that makes sense.

I have a Celestion Blue that I really like, but tend to use either a Gold or a Emi Red Fang. I know a lot of folks dog those Red Fangs, but I really like them and tend to (currently) favor the Red Fang over the Gold/Blue. The Golds/Blues have a creamy mid that sounds great when driving distorted tones and a refined clean tone that sounds big.

But, I play in a country band and that creamy mid of the Blue/Gold can sometimes get lost behind the thick mids of hammond keys and acoustic guitar. To my ears, the Red Fang is more agressive, the mids are voiced differently, and the Red Fang has a little less low end. To me, that translates into tighter, more defined low end that does not muddy up and with the mid emphasis of the Red Fangs, I tend to cut through our mixes with less volume and more clarity.

Also, it may help to know that I play mostly tele/strat and use compression before the amp to get that snappy country "clean with hair" tone, so in this regard, the aggressive nature of the Red Fang works with me. I can also see why that characteristic of the speaker may turn off some folks.

That said, when I need more than one speaker, I usually blend the Red Fang with either an EVM12L or Scumback H75.

The truth of the matter is that I have tried the TC-15 with about 7-8 different speakers and they all sound good, just different.

Best regards
Tom

Glad to hear that you use a H75 Scumback speaker. I was wondering if anyone has used the Scumback speakers with a TC15 before.

I bought one for my Aiken Tomcat and though it sounded great I actually think that a M75 (Greenback clone) may be more suited for this amp. The stock speaker, a mojotone is also very nice, so it's staying in for now.

The 2 12 cabinet I'm planning for my TC15 will have the Scumback H75 and a BBQ bulldog ceramic. If I'm not to pleased with that combination I may get the Scumnico.


Chuck

I have the 65 watt Scumnico. Where I love my H75s, I have been generally underwhelmed by the Scumnico.

In tests with different amps, the Scumnico compressed the highs in a way that to my ears, was unmusical and unappealing when compared to the great tones I could get with my Red Fang, Gold and Blue.

That said, I try to give each speaker a clean slate when testing a new amp, so I plan on running the Scumnico through its paces with my TC-15 build this weekend.

Thanks Tom for the info.

Let us know how the Scumnico does.

Also, How does the Gold compare to the Blue tonewise in yoyur opinion?

Chuck

Skeeterbuck:
In general, I prefer the Gold by a very slim margin. The Blue has great high end detail, which can work for or against you, depending upon the amp and instrument. The Blue can also get a bit tubby when pushed really hard. The Gold, to my ears, has a little less high end emphasis, but is still plenty detailed. Both the Blue and Gold have similarly voiced mids and excel at overdriven tones.

As I mentioned, I still currently favor the Red Fang over the other speakers that I have, but we will see where my testing takes me.

I just set up some speaker boxes so that I can run tests on my Red Fang, Gold, Blue and Scumnico, but this testing will have to wait til the weekend.

Tom

Tom, I've got the 2x12 Tone Tubby Alnico/Ceramic set up that coco mentions above in a Swanson cab. You're welcome to try those if you like.

Chris:
That would be great! I have been wanting to hear these speakers for quite a while. It will be interesting to see how the TTs stack up. It would also be fun to hang out, jam a bit and talk shop.

Let me know when you have some free time. My schedule through labor day is pretty full. I have a couple of out of town gigs and I am doing a fill-in gig so I have a ton of songs to learn in the next week.

Tom

I'm assuming you all saw this speaker test? viewtopic.php?t=1273

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Stephen, yea, I saw those threads. I think that Brent did a fantastic job on his speaker testing. I'd be interested in Brent's opinion as to his speaker preferences for cleaner tones, e.g., on the TB side.

Hey all! And thanks Tom.

FWIW, I tend to like the same speakers more or less on both the clean and dirty side of any given amp - of course there are exceptions, but with my TC-15, my favourite speaker across the board regardless of channel or settings is the V30... particularly in my Mesa cab. The V30 is also good in the Orange cab, but there's just something about that Mesa for me. Anxious to try Stephen's V30 cab... I did extensive testing before I recorded those clips, and I kept going back to the Mesa - just sounds "right" to me. Tonally fits the TC like a glove to my ears...

My close second favourite was the TT Alnico in Stephen's cab, but I preferred that speaker all gained up over clean... loved how it compressed at higher gain settings... although it's totally cool clean too, just not as special for me... But for the record, Stephen's building me the matching cab to my TC right now and it will have at least one TTA in it! But gotta take the San Rafael for a test drive first before I decide for sure!!!

Hope this helps.

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Brent Bodrug
Producer-Engineer/Songwriter

www.slyfichapel.com

Brent:
Thanks for sharing your opinions. I have been slowly working with speaker matching the TC-15 to an oval back pine 1x12. In that context, I have been migrating towards alnico speakers, but since I am not done tweaking my amp, I cannot settle on a speaker just yet.

That said, the cabs you utilized for your testing look awsome. I sometimes think it would be fun to go back to the closed back 4x12 days...until I have to load up at the end of the night.