trinityamps.com

Trinity Amps Guitar Amp Forum
It is currently Sat Apr 05, 2025 8:59 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » On Stage » TRIWATT

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
ROB_PRICE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:18 pm 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 158
Location: CONNECTICUT
Looking at the Triwatt Schematic, I see the component mod's for Townshend's Hiwatt. That is no problem, but I was wondering if any Hiwatt Experts know why he had them built with the four separate preamps volume controls for each input. I could see it may be useful if you a switching system for different gain levels, but I thought Townshend only would use one channel, and use the guitar's volume to adjust the preamp gain?

Any clues?

Thanks

_________________
ROB
Top
 Profile  
 
Revv23
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:41 am 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:19 pm
Posts: 217
Haven't looked at the schematic but I thought the inputs were linked thus meaning the volume controls were interactive even with one channel in a-la 5E3.
Top
 Profile  
 
ROB_PRICE
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:07 pm 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 158
Location: CONNECTICUT
I didn't think they linked, but I haven't seen the schematic either.

_________________
ROB
Top
 Profile  
 
zaphod
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:19 am 
Offline
Expert
Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:45 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: YYZ
Townshend was a Hiwatt user from very early on, when the first Hiwatts were very similar to the Sound City amps (also designed by Dave Reeves). Like many other early guitar amps, these were designed with the idea that you could plug several instruments into the same amp, and I'm sure that many small bands on a budget probably made use of this feature, especially given their clean high power level. The inputs aren't directly linked. They all go to seperate triode inputs and combine at the output with 500k pots and 470k mixer resistors, so there's little interaction between them. IIRC Townshend would use a 4-way "Y cable" to drive all four inputs simultaneously, to get the most gain and volume from the amp. He also used a 12AX7 in the phase invertor to get more breakup.

_________________
Great tones come in small glass jars!
Top
 Profile  
 
Revv23
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:46 pm 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:19 pm
Posts: 217
I've heard of the 4 way cable as well, but any pics of his rig ive seen on stage all have just input 1 plugged in.

I also wonder about the effect of a 4 way split on your guitar tone...
Top
 Profile  
 
Revv23
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:47 pm 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:19 pm
Posts: 217
http://guitargeek.com/rigview/595/

Not sure how accurate this is... don't think it is because i check the schem and zaphod appears to be right about the input not being linked
Top
 Profile  
 
zaphod
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:15 pm 
Offline
Expert
Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:45 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: YYZ
Revv23 wrote:
I've heard of the 4 way cable as well, but any pics of his rig ive seen on stage all have just input 1 plugged in.

The amp featured in that link isn't the original CP103, but a DR103 amp model modified to suit Townshend's requirements. As the link says this includes disabling/removing the Mid and Presence controls and linking all the inputs together. So you would only see PT using a regular single guitar cable with one of these amps, whereas he would have used the 4-way cable with an original CP103 or Sound City amp.
Revv23 wrote:
I also wonder about the effect of a 4 way split on your guitar tone...

According to most vintage Hiwatt aficionados it sounds fantastic. They seem to think it gives more gain that way, but I'm not sure if I believe them. Some of those Hiwatt buffs even play through Hiwatt PA amps with a single guitar wired into all six inputs. :shock:

_________________
Great tones come in small glass jars!
Top
 Profile  
 
Revv23
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:45 am 
Offline
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:19 pm
Posts: 217
All CP103's and PT's SoundCity amps came without the mid and presence controls.

http://mhuss.com/php/pix.php?p=2CP103s


Also from Mhuss.com:
Quote:

Could you tell me if there were special modifications made to the amps Pete Townshend used to play? I have seen pictures of his amps and the faceplate says CUSTOM HIWATT 100 "THE WHO".Were these amps made special to Pete's requirements? Best Wishes on your Web Site.I have an early 70s DR103, what a great sound!

A. - The modified DR103 units that Pete used were,in fact, CP103 "SUPER WHO 100" models,that were made specifically for his sound and style. The key differences between the DR103 that you have, and Pete's CP103s were: *The instrument inputs were linked together and boosted by and additional 10db. *The Middle and Presence controls were "neutered" at the factory,as Pete preferred just Bass and Treble controls. *Two additional Volume controls were added to give increased gain and flexibility at both the pre and post gain stages. *The output stage of the CP103 was boosted to deliver 120 Watts R.M.S.into an 8 Ohm load. A total of 7 CP103 heads were made for Pete between 1970 and 1976.He typically used 3 at a time in his stage set-up,2 for Mains and 1 for Back-up. As was customary for their higher profile customers, HIWATT would engrave the bands name on the control faceplate.(i.e. Dave Gilmours DR103s were engraved with "PINK FLOYD"). Pete's SE4123 Cabinets,(initially he used SE4122s), were loaded with 4 specially-designed 50 Watt Fane 12" speakers that were "voiced" for an increased Bass response to complement his "PowerChord" style.


http://mhuss.com/Hiwatt/HiwattStory/index-10.html
Top
 Profile  
 
zaphod
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:54 pm 
Offline
Expert
Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:45 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: YYZ
That is pretty much what I was saying.

However, these specially-customised "Super Who 100" amps aren't the same thing as the true Hiwatt CP103 amps that PT originally used. Those ones had four independent inputs, and also had no Mid or Presence controls in the first place that could be "neutered". In other words the Super Who amps were modified to approximate to something like a CP103. And the CP103s were themselves quite similar to Dave Reeves' earlier Sound City amp designs.

_________________
Great tones come in small glass jars!
Top
 Profile  
 
Snapcase
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:40 am
Posts: 1
The pictures I've seen of Pete's rigs show the three usually stacked heads (two used and one spare) using only the normal channels in the first Kinda DR103 heads. In the later CP103 and the very early Sound City One Hundred heads (L105 model) often with a Hiwatt logo but actually Sound City amps. He used the first channels only. From the pics you can tell that the other three channel volume knobs are turned fully down to zero. He is a single channel man. That about the four linked channels running linked together and all at once is just rumors.

After many research about all these early Pete's amps, my own guess is quite simplistic. I think Pete started using the new Reeves design when he got the first DR103 batch running. After a short while, Pete told the man he actually preferred the early Sound City heads he was previously using, so Reeves built some L105s in Hiwatt disguises for the Who boys. IMHO, that's all the story, myth and mystique about the special custom circuit inside the "The Who" amps. The L105 circuit almost matches the CP103. It's that simple.
Top
 Profile  
 
zaphod
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:32 pm 
Offline
Expert
Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:45 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: YYZ
I can see a natural evolution between the Sound City L105 amps, then the CP103s and finally the DR103s. So the CP103s appear to be something in between a Sound City L105 and a DR. The later amps that Hiwatt supplied Townshend appear to have been DR103s modded to be somewhat like CP 103s. You may be right that Pete only ever really used the one channel. I haven't seen those pictures which show all but one volume control turned right down. I would be interested to know if they're online anywhere.

_________________
Great tones come in small glass jars!
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 

Board index » On Stage » TRIWATT

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group