Here is a Tolex Tutorial from another forum I belong to. I can't put a link because if you are not a member of the forum you will not be able to access it SO I am going to try and copy and paste the whole thread here. It may not work so please bear with me. It is a very good tolex tutorial showing the recover of a Marshall 4x12. I hope the pics come with it. Also it is a thread so there are other posters in the middle aside from the poster giving the tutorial. "Scumbag" is Jim Seavall from Scumbag Amps and Speakers BTW
Here goes
#1 02-20-2005, 01:38 PM
Scumbag
Guitar Tone Conjurer Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, Ca. 90275
Posts: 3,297
Marshall 4x12 recover 101 tutorial...ready to go?
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Ok, gents, now that we're refocused on why we're here, who wants to recover their Marshall 4x12 slant cab? I said I'd do this a few weeks back, so I'll start with the tolex stripping portion of it.
First, get a good sized area to work in, doesn't need to be clean, cuz it will be cruddy when we're done! Try not to piss off the little woman by leaving a mess, though...OK?
Start by removing all of the hardware, the speakers, the cables, jack plate, casters, and anything else that's sticking up made of metal or plastic.
Plastic corners might not be salvagable, so get ready to buy those from your favorite Marshall supply place. If you want to save them (they're only $20 for a full set for cab), get out your dremel tool, and grind out the rivets that hold them in. If you've got screws, great! Unscrew them, and put them back in later. Keep the corners in a ziplock, and note where they went on the cab.
Once the hardware is off, the baffle board is unscrewed, the back panel is off and the speakers are out, unstaple the piping (unless you're going to replace it, too). Get out the straight tip screwdriver, and pry those out carefully (if you're reusing the piping), don't jam your hands with them! They're old, and probably bordering on rusty, so be careful.
Now here's the fun part, start pulling off the tolex from the inside edges. If you want to use your old tolex as a pattern for the new tolex (assuming it's still got the edges!), be REALLY careful. Don't slip up and rip it. In some cases, there's no choice, it rips cuz it's old, already ripped, torn or otherwise unsuitable for tracing. No big deal, we'll get that covered, too.
Here's our test subject 4x12 cab. This is an early - mid 80's Marshall 1960 Vintage slant cab. As you can see, we've got ripped cloth, ripped tolex, chipped out wood chunks, broken logo (3 pieces), dings, dents and crap all over this one. Here's where we're going to start.
And here's where we're headed...
OK, figured I'd better touch on a few points for removing your plastic corners. If they're old (these are about 20 years old), they're most likely dented and f**ked up. However we don't want to gouge the wood anymore than necessary, so let's try to be a bit more careful than just stabbing, and cracking... let's get the corners off quickly, without too much heartache. We're going to wind up going with smooth corners with 45 degree angle cuts just like they did in the old days, so the least amount of wood filler or dowel rods we need to fill chips, rivet holes, etc... the better. Let's start with removing the plastic corners. Get a short, but wide straight tip in there under the plastic corner.
Then get out a nail puller, and shove or pound it smoothly under the straight tip. Go slow, and don't force it unless you have to. Using leverage on the short stubby screwdriver to pry up the plastic should be kept to a minimum as once you loosen the rivet, the whole thing pops off pretty easily. Here's step two...
What's left afterwards...nope the tolex isn't cut real well here, they've got corners to cover their boo boos!
Of course the bottom corners look alot better, go figure!
Side handles took a crap, though...no big deal, we'll be replacing them with metal handles from Mojotone, and also putting in T-nuts, and machine screws to hold the new handles on.
Here's a surprise, though. The handles fit just fine, but the screw holes don't all match. We'll be doweling up the old holes, and drilling new ones for the T-nuts. Since the flange is wider than the existing Marshall handle, when the cab is doweled up, we'll decide how many screws we want to use. The old cabs used six screws, this handle has holes for 12, so we'll figure that out when we're done with the tolex. 12 scews is certainly going to be secure enough, I'll let you decide how close you want to be to "old school Marshall". If you look for the original handles, be prepared to pay. There was a pair in eBay last weekend, opening bid of $250. Yikes! These cost under $24 shipped for a pair. You decide. Here's a comparison of the handles.
Well, let's see. We have to unscrew the baffle board, and take off the old cloth. It's pretty faded, to say the least (fade resistant black, huh? Oh yeah sure! LOL) and it's got ALOT of staples, roughly 40 per side. Get out one of the #1 small straight tip screwdrives and start prying them up. Those cheap computer toolkits have the perfect size for this, and they also fit the really small piping staples exactly, so break out the small straight tip screwdriver, slide it under the old black cloth, center under the staples and start prying them up. Then get out the pliers and pull them the rest of the way out. See ya in about 1/2 hour. Boring work, but... you have no choice.
Man, this cloth is OUTTA HERE, huh? Yuch!
Staples freaking everywhere.
How your white, gold or silver piping is cut to go around corners inside. This is the lower lefthand corner (looking from the backside). Notice the cut to the corner thru the piping bead? That's to allow it to bend at the corner and stay flat. Use extra staples here when you reattach it, too. Keeps it in place.
Upper righthand corner (from the rear view) of the piping where it starts and ends (notice there's no cut to round the corner as in the previous pic?)
The tolex should all just peel off with your fingers, or with a little persuasion from a screwdriver or knife blade now. Rip it all off... go ahead, get nuts!
Get the bottom, too. No half assed stuff here!
Someone asked how they get the angle on the baffle board for a slant cab. Here's how, take a good look. A precision angle cut I guess.
In the next installment, we'll dowel up the extra holes, and sand the cab smooth with a belt sander, and sanding blocks for the inside corners, etc. We'll get going on this on the weekend. Check back in two or three days for more instructions! Have a good afternoon, OK?
OK, we left off with stripping the cab, and now move to the most enviable task of all... taking off the glue residue. Thrilled, aren't you? (Yeah, me neither...barf!)
My advice is get one of the workbenches you can raise and lower, get two clamps, an electic belt sander of 4" or wider, a hand sanding block, 40 grit & 80 grit sandpaper for the sanding block. Outfit your belt sander with 50 grit, get two belts in case you find that hidden staple, screw, whatever. It happened to me during this..
OK start by getting your workmate bench up to a comfortable height you can reach WITH the cab on top. At 6'2" I had my bench about the height of my upper thighs, then added on the 30" of the cab height and got just around shoulder height. Do what's comfortable for you. Then clamp your cab with diagonally so it won't flex. Or use more if you want, it's up to you.
Make sure your clamps are tight, no deviations. Get out the belt sander. Keep two things in mind right now.
1) 50 Grit sandpaper cuts quick. Do not push in, let the sander's weight be your only force. I'll show you why later...
2) Hold on tight! The 50 grit paper will grip the wood and take off if you're not holding on. Forget the gym today, I did!
Use the belt sander going with the grain (side to side the long way, usually) of the wood. Move quickly, go back and forth. Typical time to do one side with FRESH paper, 2-3 minutes.
Back sides of the cab, you can do with the belt sander the long way only, and very sparingly, it will strip these small width pieces LIKE THAT, and if you hang on too long you have ruts, or rounded edges where you don't want them. We'll fix with wood filler, but it's easier NOT to make that mistake.
After 20 minutes of sanding your cab you should be looking like this on all four sides, but here's the top for reference:
Now you get to clean out the back indents. That's where the back panel fits in flush to the back of the cab. You have to get that goop, glue, sawdust, and crap out of there to finish the tolexing. I knew you'd be thrilled. Get a single edged safety razor, the 40 grit sandpaper, and a sanding block. Put the 40 grit in the block. Sand a little of the indent to get it warm, then take the razor and scrape the goop out. Here's the area I'm talking about:
After you get going on it, you'll get a feel for how much sanding you need to do, before it needs to be scraped with the razor. The glue will dry up alot, but still be sticky, but you can still get a nice little ball of crap each time you scrape. Anyway, angle the blade to scrape the goop off, and angle it into corners, press in and scrape those corners out good. When it starts looking like this, you're close. Remember to alternate the sanding block and the razor. Neither does it all, but they do well in tandem.
This operation should take around 30 minutes to an hour. Depends how diligent you are, and how many beers you've had, right? Stay focused, razors are shop, belt sanders can tear your skin off and screw up your hands, so let's celebrate after we're done, OK?
While you're tired of moving your hands with the sanding block and razor, take the time to brush off your baffle board with a whisk broom or similar, get the dust off, and the lint, then spray paint it FLAT BLACK. Get it looking like this, and you're good to go. The edges where the screws are don't show, so don't waste any extra paint on them, unless you want to.
OK, when you're done, it should look alot like this. That's right THIS WHITE! All of that black goop was glue. Make sure your back indents, and your inside cab edges are all this clean. We need that area to wrap new tolex around, so if the old glue is there, it won't stick as well. Want your tolex to unroll? Didn't think so. We'll reconvene shortly for new cloth for the 4x12 baffle board. Thinking of BluesBreaker reissue cloth with white piping... whaddya think? Here's the cab before today...
And now...
Check in with you later for the grill cloth installation...
BluesBreaker Grillcloth installation on 4x12 baffle...
Well, after some serious consideration, I decided to go with something completely different on this cab. I figured since this would be my "Scumback demo cab" that I'd go ahead and make it unique. So I'm going with the BluesBreaker grill cloth and SILVER piping. I loved that look on badtone's bag (
http://scumbagamps.com/1001/1001xcfinal.jpg) and the extension cab I made for a 10 & 12 extension cab (1x12 extension on top, 10 & 12 extension cab on the bottom), so I figured WTF and go with it for the 4x12 demo cab, too. We're going to put back on all of the standard plastic, too, except the plastic corners. We'll still upgrade to metal handles for durability. So...here's where we're at. Start with getting your cloth as straight as possible. Put extra staples at the corners so the cloth doesn't move as you'll have to stretch this "by hand" to make it tight. Start on a corner, and line it up...staple very close to the edge and evenly. This cloth needs to be stapled through it's weave. If you just staple between the weaves, it moves when stretched. So staple it as shown, you don't want to pull out 20 staples...do you?
You want it this straight.
I start on the top of the baffle board, and get it dead nuts straight as possible. There is some "weave wandering" in this cloth, as in any of the Marshall cloth I've used/seen/bought, so line it up tight, straight, and staple carefully on top. Flip the baffle board, then pull it over the bottom. Do your best to have it straight and staple in the center, this will keep the cloth from "flexing" as much towards the sides. So pick a good line on the cloth, FOLD IT along that line across the entire bottom, staple 3 times in the center, then start pulling the cloth even to match out to the sides. Check your line, and stapling technique every 2-3 staples. I got lazy and had to pull out about 15. Don't get lazy, it just costs you staples and time, and you get to redo it cuz it looks crooked. After the top and bottom are stapled, you do the sides the same way. Pull the cloth tight, then fold the cloth over the baffle board edges and start stapling again, right on the edge closest to the front of the baffle board.
It should look like this when you're done...or real close.
Now just trim up the excess, and staple down the loose ends and you're done. Here's the finished product (before trimming).
We'll do the piping install this weekend, after the new piping gets here, then start recovering the cab... stay tuned for more.
Here's what your cab should look like before you get started. When your cab doesn't feel "gooey" any more, and it looks mostly white, you're ready to recover it with tolex.
Your channels have to be this clean. No glue, no residue, no nothing.
You get those channels clean with a small straight tip screwdriver, and a folded piece of sandpaper (60 grit is what I used). Then you're ready to go next week when the weather clears up around here, and I can continue this thread.
Gents, please check out my latest restoration. I bought a 1970 Marshall "beater cab" that had been recovered with the wrong tolex, corners added...etc... I took it back to stock. So I started off with this cab:
Then I stripped it, filled it's various blemishes and extra corner holes, and started recovering. If you look further up the thread, I showed this cab with it's piping channels as an example of why you needed them very clean and without extra goop in them. Before:
After:
Corners:
Front views:
I'll demonstrate how to add in all the caster cups, handles (yep this one came with metal handles) with new T-nuts for anchors and tidy up the front/back corners and back panel tolex. If you look carefully you can see some white edges of the tolex, and white wood in some corners. No problem. We'll get a black "Sharpie" and darken in those very small spots and have ourselves a nicely restored 1970 Basketweave straight cab to load up with some speakers.
I'll also go into details on the corners, but basically you wrap the side pieces FIRST, then the top and bottom pieces. This is where you can make or break your tolex work, so this one I'll go into some detail on. Check in later today or tomorrow, after the sliver piping for the slant cabinet arrives.
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Corner cutting made easy...
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Ok gents, here's how to cut your corners, and not make them look like dog crap...
Let's start off remembering that we had a 20" by 34" piece going up each side. At the top there should be some extra tolex past the point we'll cut it to meet the piping channel (disregard if you have the JCM 800 or 900 cab, no piping generally on those cabs).
So to start this off, let's use something that won't kill us to practice on...like a piece of standard printer paper. Wrap the paper around the corners, then tape it down as shown with about 5 inches hanging off the front (you better have almost that much to wrap around the front edge of the cab, and behind the grill cloth anyway). So let's start here with the paper taped down to the corner:
Then make a cut at the corner of the paper farthest in towards the cab at the 45 degree angle made by the two joints. So cut it with a razor here (keep in mind this is paper, but you'll do this to the tolex, too).
You should have something that looks roughly like this when done cutting. Don't get to freaked out if it's not perfectly at the 45 degree angle, alot of this will be cut off to fit.
Keep the cuts straight, OK?
Then pull down the right side of the cut (the top piece of tolex) and cut as shown up to the inside lip/edge of the cab where the tolex folds over. CUT NO FURTHER THAN THE FRONT EDGE!
Do the same cut for the side piece of tolex.
Cutting corners made easy, part 2!
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Pull the side piece in, pull the top piece on top of it, tight, and draw a 45 degree angle line.
With the tolex, it should look something close to this.
If you're going to be manly, you can do it by yourself. Just lay the tolex down, lay a straight edge at a 45 degree angle, press down tight, and cut the TWO PIECES OF TOLEX AT ONCE with the razor knife. If you like, get a friend to hold the straight edge, while you cut the tolex layers.
Since you had the tolex tight, and the cut was through both pieces of tolex, you should now have two perfectly matched "halves" that meet at the right angle, and it should look like this. Before piping is installed pic.
After piping is installed pic.
Do the other three corners the same way, and your cab should look like this cab does.
Go pat yourself on the back, and use some Crazy Glue to finish off the tolex corners where they meet. You might have to make some really small cuts back at the edge of the cab, as the tolex will resist laying flat on the rounded corner. Just make really thin, small cuts and push the tolex together until it meets just like the rest of the "seam" does on the front.
That's about all there is to it.
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Scumbag Amps
#23 04-13-2005, 03:38 PM
Jack Rackamm
Ye olde Engrish shoppe Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Secret skull pirate island
Posts: 1,968
There's a grillcloth 101 thread somewhere around page 3-4 and a tolex 101 on page 4 or 5. Could someone edit these threads to make them sticky too? There's a piping 101 too IIRC.
#25 04-14-2005, 02:10 PM
Hey gents...everything you need to know about the materials, the glue and all that is in the Fender tweed tolex tutorial, tools, glue, etc.
I buy my Fender tweed from Mojotone, the Marshall stuff I get from tubesandmore.com as they have the "real Marshall" goods (unlike some online places that sell generic/lower quality) like the grilcloth, tolex, rivets, casters, etc.
If you need help, just email me, I'll send you to the right places.
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