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I'm reading up from various sources (Tube Amp Book, Soul of Tone...) before I embark on my first (ordering Trinity Deluxe kit tomorrow!) build, and as can be expected there are different philosophies for pretty much every component that goes into them...suppose that's the fascination and mojo of amps!

Anyway, today's question is about wire! Vintage style cloth, PVC, Teflon even - would the use of any of these effect the quietness of the amp, at 'idle', so to speak, or is that all down to cap/resistor/circuit type? Is PVC now used just because its mass produced and cheaper or does it shield things better than cloth? I read about a boutique amp maker, possibly the guy from THD(?), using Teflon shielded wire, as it was easier to solder.

Thanks!

Cloth covered, PVC or Teflon™ insulated (not shielded) wire shouldn't technically make a difference as far as noise or sound quality is concerned. PVC is relatively inexpensive, widely available, fairly durable and easy to service and work with, which I would guess is the main reason that it is so prevalent. For these sort of builds people seem to prefer a solid core hookup wire because it retains it's bends fairly well. I have always felt that stranded hookup wire is less prone to microphonic type noise than solid core, but that's just my opinion. A stranded hookup wire gives you a level of forgiveness... That is, if a solid wire breaks your done, whereas a stranded wire will usually fail a strand at a time and you may get years more service out of the joint.

Teflon insulated wire is always silver plated (as opposed to the nickel plating found on most other hookup wire types) due to the high temperature of extruding the Teflon material over the wire. Nickel plating would burn off essentially during the extrusion process. Teflon is expensive, hard to service (usually stripped thermally), and some types are very "springy" and won't hold a shape, except for the shape of the spool that they came on (wire memory). Some do hold a form very well which is what I used on the V6 Rackmount.

I won't get into the "this wire sounds better than that wire debate", although there may be some truth to it as far silver plated wire is concerned. If I were building a Deluxe I think I would go with tradition and use the cloth covered pushback wire Just one man's opinion!!!

Joe G

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With wire it's all about the copper. In my experience wire made with copper from anywhere in the southern hemisphere sounds way better than N.american chit. That being said, if you must use n.American copper'd wire be sure to align the printing on the insulation in the direction of the signal flow. And by all means avoid orange wire. The dyes used in orange insulation has a few extra electrons thus creating fields in the wire that attenuate the signal. If you must use orange wire for asthetic reasons I suggest you pull the wire out of the insulation and push in a good piece of Brazilian copper wire. Belizian is also a good choice as is Paraguayian. Argentinian...not so much.
As for stranded vs solid....I don't know. Brazil doesn't make stranded ...or if they do it's wayyyy expensive.
Hope this helps. I'd write more but they've come for me..
Stew

Red has the best tone

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Green is tastiest, but Teflon is too chewy for my dental work.

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Just joking around Joe.
Stew

JV makes some very good points. The stranded wire is probaly longest living forthe reason he mentions, and I can see it being less microphonic - seriously. But I dont like it since it doesnt stay where I want it to which ticks me off no end!!

You have to be careful with the PVC & melting it (we use pretty thick stuff now ( 600V 20 ga)

I'd really like to use/supply teflon wire but seriously, that stuff is not easy to strip with basic electronics hand tools. Especially inside a chassis.

JV, what do you suggest for stripping Teflon wire?

Sonically, I'm not going there!

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Stephen, ideally Teflon hookup wire should be stripped thermally. Because of the silver plating the wire is very brittle. Any "over-enthusiasm" with a standard mechanical blade type stripper or using the wrong gauge opening on the stripper for the wire being stripped will leave a ring of nicked wire strands around the circumference of the wire right at the insulation edge (this also happens quite often with standard nickel plated wire) and you will eventually loose all of the outer strands after a few bends of the wire after it's soldered (if it even lasts that long).

These are the best thermal strippers I've found for working in very tight areas...
http://www.series4.co.uk/prodeqpt/section01/ds5.htm

Unless you have a particular customer need for Teflon, like ZZ Top has a gig on the International Space Station, most of us don't require high temp/low outgassing wire in our amp builds.

Joe G

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So it looks like the advice is stick with with PVC for ease of use, and sonically...everyone dodged the question!

Or cloth covered for the vintage vibe on the Deluxe. Assume the cloth covered wire is still solid core?

And re-reading the interview in the back of Dave Hunter's book, The Guitar Amp Handbook, it was Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps, who used Teflon wire on the Komet amps, though admitted he had to design the amp around the wire, otherwise it sounded very shrill. On Trainwreck's he used solid core, PVC insulated.

R

Sonically...I can imagine that theoretically it makes a difference.

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

I thought we weren't going there
I have to go suck all the oxygen out of my wire... be right back

Joe G

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While we're on the subject of Wire, how about a new lesson in Military style joints.

JV you did one on soldering, but how about the mechanics of a MILSPEC connection?

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Having some trouble sleeping Stephen??
I'll try to put something together...

Joe G

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Where is the soldering guide?

JV's work is so awesome; I look at any amp besides a hiwatt and i can't believe how messy it is! I used to think that was the way everyone did it. Then JV came along.

JV's guide is in the resourcre section called "Of Solder & Solderability"

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Thank you very much Revv23, that's quite a place of honor You may have noticed that I haven't finished that amp yet, so there may be something to be said for slapping an amp together and actually playing it I've recently started doing some custom amp work and repairs for other people (instead of my own ) and I would have to agree that the majority of the so-called "production" grade amps I've seen so far are very poorly constructed. I'm impressed though that the people on this forum notice the difference, ask a lot of questions and try to improve with each build. I give you a lot of credit

Joe G

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