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 Post subject: fuzzy distortion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Location: South-Africa
Hi fellas, ive got this terrible harsh distortion from my tc-15 at low master volume, mid to full on pre-volume controls.it gets worse with my 'Paul,downright nasty.it just sounds like cheap fuzz pedal!

my previous spitfire build sounded awesome with only ONE pot-cap combo for volume/tone with avery progressive overdrive,nothing harsh like the new tc-15 :cry:

Please help!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:26 pm 
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forgot to say that it is on the ecc83 ch.ef86 sounds much better, could be alittle smoother.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:36 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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I like to start with voltages and go from there. Can you measure & post them?
A pic of the build would be good to and which layout did you use?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:01 am 
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ok, no digicam, but here are the voltages

v7 ef86 95v anode
v1 144v
v2 180v
v2 245v cathode follower
v3 255v
v4,v5 295v anode, 7.5v bias with 120R cathode res.
screens 285v

i removed the MV, and that seems to contribute to the problem. With no MV, it breaks up nicely, a little earlier than the spitfire,but no harshness at all
:?

id lose the MV altogether, only theres not enuff clean headroom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Hello

the M***** V***** (i can't even say those disgusting words!) is an aberration, an offence to the earholes. They destroy tone of otherwise good amps. If people want to get a ballsy sound at lower volumes they should just use smaller amps. I am so happy to hear you heard the difference. Don't reinstall the master, if you want more clean headroom, just tweak the amp a bit.

I expect lots of people might jump on me for my grouchy old man views for many reasons, but 'tone' and the 'MV' words cannot live in the same sentence. ...let alone in the same amp. MV is a kinda sound in it's own right i suppose... (witness Marshalls....once they started using them, they were never the same. They sounded disgusting, although a couple of generations have taken that sound and made it the basis for many new styles.....but look at all the expensive boutique amps now and even modelling gear.....all mostly trying to recreate the sounds of old Fender, Marshall and Vox amps from long before the MV was ever thought of).

So yup....see a master volume?....rip it out and start to find tone.....

....i'll shut up now and wait for someone to hit me........(grin)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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Put the MV on a push-pull or rotary switch and use it only when you need to. Personally, I think there is a place for them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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jp3 wrote:
ok, no digicam, but here are the voltages

v7 ef86 95v anode
v1 144v
v2 180v
v2 245v cathode follower
v3 255v
v4,v5 295v anode, 7.5v bias with 120R cathode res.
screens 285v


Some Voltages: AC Mains Voltage 123VAC;B+ 440 VDC no tubes installed;355 VDC with tubes


Pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
V1 130 -- 1.21 -- -- 130 -- 1.21 --
V2 159 -- 1.27 -- -- 197 -- 160 --
V3 190 -- 61 -- -- 231 -- 61 --
V4 -- -- 5.9 -- -- -- 298 -- --
V5) -- -- 5.9 -- -- -- 291 -- --
V6 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 298 --
V7 56 -- 1.5 -- -- 127 -- 1.5 -- (EF86)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Hello

yes, i think the majority of people these days would agree that the MV is a more than useful feature, probably almost a neccesity. Valve amps are expensive, and most people own a fairly powerful amp and need to try to get it rockin' in the bedroom between gigs, without the neighbours trying to unscrew their heads. Somehow way back, i realised that the old amps had to be dialled up to 5 or 6 on the dial before they started to get fat, (the amps, i mean, not the players....), and then i was stuck with THAT volume? "What to do when i need other volume levels?" i asked myself at the tender age of 17. Simple....buy several amps of different sizes. My life has been based on that, and all the things that go with it....owning several amps and huge vehicles to transport several amps (and many guitars) to gigs. That was the seventies. Now i am a dinosaur. I accept that now it is harder and most people can only afford one decent amp and have to try to cover all the bases, and travel to gigs in the family sedan. Now i build amps and my friends complain that the AC4's i have built them are too loud (Ah! i love it !!!)

Most MV's cause the sound to thin out at bedroom levels, and sound cheap. My opinion is that the Matchless-style master, across the outputs of the PI is the best of the bunch, the least tone-destroying. As you say, Coco, a MV that can de disabled is the best all-round compromise.

However.....and this is just me.....'compromise' and 'rock'n'roll' somehow are polar opposites. My solution has always been.....to get real, REAL good.....to the point that people will not question the volume....for example......i have lived in houses where occasionally a band rehearsal would take place.....occasionally i would encounter a neighbour and the subject of the domestic rehearsal would come up......there would be the usual grovelling..."errm...hope we didn't disturb you TOOOO much the other day....".......and so often i have been told...."NO, not at all....in fact we opened all our windows and wished you had played for longer".

I have played for a very long time, and built a lot of amps. Not one has had a MV control. This is purely an opinion, and from a minority area, but i think i am qualified to say that....no matter how brilliant we may become in the technology, it is all about the usage....we design and build and tweak amps for what? Ultimately, to entertain...ourselves and possibly others (well...hopefully to entertain, rather than to annoy....hehe). Lots of people want and need to try to sound like sounds of hell and death and Ozzy and all the rest in the confines of their appartment late at night with the wife and kids asleep nearby. There is even the cult now of people looking to build tube amps of 1/2 - 1 watt output because things like the AC4 are just too darn loud.

If i have had to use a MV amp, i have always run them 'backwards'....put the MV up high and keep the preamp volume low, to stay away from that dreadful thin buzzy sound. I have met a few people who have discovered the same, basically trying to run a MV amp as if it was a non-MV amp.

Personally, my favourite is....and this has happened all my life......people will say...."F*** you play LOUD !!".......to which i reply......"Yes".

For most people who are rather less wreckless, The disableable(?) MV is no doubt the best compromise. But please consider the possibility of having various sized amps without any MV to avoid that thinning of tone. Also consider, particularly when using EL84 power valves, switching from 4 to 2 valves, and then the use of switchable triode/pentode operation.

Also please understand that this is....opinion...(albeit highly opinionated but educated and experienced opinion) tempered with a great deal of dark humour as well as fact.....then....get REAL good so that you can play at the volume that suits you and never be questioned........at this point, timing and taste also become a huge issue.....

hmmm....a bit philosophical perhaps, but many hours at the workbench has to be for specific reasons beyond just saving $$$$$....have a target and work towards it......MV was designed as a compromise in the first place (so we could try to sound like Clapton in Cream with our huge Marshalls at rehearsal or in some tiny club as opposed to the huge venues he worked)..............get good so you don't have to compromise.......and get a little amp.....

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Lumbering dinosaur....what's a master volume?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:43 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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crusty - Very, very well put and I agree with most of what you say. I do like the post PI MV and the option to switch it out and play that MV at max to, if you can take the Dbs and it sounds good too.

That said, I have not had any complaints about thin sounding amps that use MVs tho. Only "Complaint" I've ever had is "Man, that's loud! ", To which I reply -"Yes". 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:06 am 
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Hehe, a few more years and people will say "MAN that amp sound good but it's SO ****** LOUD !!!".....to which i will probably respond...."Sorry? What did you say? Can you speak up a bit?".................

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Lumbering dinosaur....what's a master volume?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:22 pm 
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How exactly do you make the MV on this something that can switch on and off?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:49 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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JamesO wrote:
How exactly do you make the MV on this something that can switch on and off?


Get a 1M Audio pot with push-pull on/off [or rotary on/off].
Put the switch in the circuit so when you pull it, the MV is effective. The pot acts as in the circuit.

Can do the same with a rotary switch too. Pretty easy change. I can detail it later in pics if you want.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:23 pm 
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That's pretty slick. Thanks Stephen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:24 am 
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Location: South-Africa
Crusty, ive come to the exact same conclusion as you, albeit at the rusty age of 27... :wink: NO MORE MV for me thanx. I build this particular amp for a friend, so he ultimately has the final choices,to MV or not to MV.

Ive recently converted my beloved Epi Valve jr. combo to a Spitfire and was so impressed, it totally ROCKS! The tone starts to come alive very quickly, volume at 10 o clock,eardrum bursting stuff. no need for the tone controls at all,strat happy, 'paul happy

8)


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