trinityamps.com

I thought I'd re-post this under a separate heading, so it wouldn't get lost in the Christmas wrappings!

Has anyone compared the sound of a single 12" with 2-12's and/or 4-12's, on the same amp, with the same kind of speakers (and matching impedance)? E.g., Deluxe with 1-12, Deluxe with 2-12s, Deluxe with 4-12s; TC15 with 1-12, TC-15 with 2-12s, etc; all settings the same as speakers are added/subtracted, and with the same speaker type/manufacture (or at least the same speaker efficiency, to remove that variable from the test).

What are your conclusions? An earlier post from Stephen states there will be a 3db boost in volume when the no. of speakers is doubled. But what about change in tone, dispersion, perceived cleanness of sound, point when the sound begins to go crunchy, etc.?

(I've read Brent's excellent study of differently manufactured speaker anbd speaker cabinet types, but it doesn't answer this question).

Thanks!
Jim

I always prefer the 212 or muliple speakers for the broad soundstage they provide, plus you can mix different ones together to create a great sounding cab. Nothing scientific here, just using my ears!

_________________
Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Well, FWIW I've had the opportunity to hear my TC-15 through my 2x12 with two TTA's, and Stephen's "bomb" with one TTA and one TTC. With Stephen's cab you have the option of listening to both speakers at once or just one of the speakers (for those that don't own a Trinity cab!). I've listened extensively both ways... I can imagine application for both scenarios. A single speaker subjectively seems to provide a more detailed, focused sound albeit at the cost of a little less euphoria. If you like a controlled, detailed, focused sound and don't need the extra volume provided by a bigger cab, then a single speaker is great. With 2 speakers, there's a subjective creaminess and bigness that doesn't come from a single but at the expense of a little detail perhaps... So, the bottom line here is, IMO the tone takes on a slightly different character depending on the number of speakers... maybe like moving a light around on a photographic subject - the essence of the subject/tone is the same, but how you perceive it is a little different...

Having said all that, for the purposes of recording I don't find there to be a huge difference between 1x12, 2x12, and 4x12 when close-miking a single speakers. If you listen to the speaker poll clips I did, I don't think you'd find a significant difference between the "size" of the TTA or TTC clips (single speaker in Stephen's 2x12 - had the other turned off when recording) or the Orange 2x12 V30 clips and the Mesa 4x12 V30 clips.

Having said that, if you're not close-miking the speaker, or if you're trying to capture the sound in the room, then there's a HUGE difference between a 1x12 and a 4x12...

Hope this helps. Brent

_________________
Brent Bodrug
Producer-Engineer/Songwriter

www.slyfichapel.com

Thanks, Stephen and Brent. Very helpful observations, and your logic makes sense to me!

I will soon have a couple of Hellatone 30s to install in an empty partially open back 2-12 cabinet, so I can try them out with the TC-15. I could also try one Hellatone and one TT Alnico, which might be interesting - but will need to remove a TT from my TC-15 or Deluxe combos (don't have the luxury of a spare TT sitting around). For that matter, I can wire a TT from the Deluxe across to the TC-15 combo to hear two TTs together (though the sound would come from two separate enclosures).

Lately I've been using an AB footswitch to play clean thru the TC-15, then switch to the Deluxe with a tube overdrive (Seymour Duncan) in the path for dirty. I like the TC-15 dirty sounds, but think that amp is especially outstanding in its cleaner settings (all of which have great texture and are never, ever close to sterile clean). Whereas the Deluxe with TT and the tube distortion pedal set more to the crunch range (moderate overdrive) has a gorgeous, pure singing tone to my ears - even with my Tele played in the bridge p/u position. But the Deluxe is a bit louder in general than the TC-15, so I'm guessing I will be able to better balance the two amps by using the Deluxe with the single 12 and the TC-15 with either 2-12s or even 3.

But you know how these things go, as commented upon earlier... One day's heavenly bliss is the next day's "oh, yeah, that sounds ok." It is fantastic to be able to get real, substantial changes in useful, rich sounds with the built in control options on these amps. Speaker choices and quantities just add to the fun!

Thanks again, and happy New Year!
Jim

To add some extra technical information, there is almost no actual increase in volume when you add more speakers without increasing the amplifier output power. In other words, although you have more cone surface to move the air, the power is now being divided between a larger number of speakers. However, two other effects come into play, which make the overall sound appear to be louder.

The first is that as you add more speakers, the sound from the cab becomes more directional and focused into a beam. So that provided you're standing towards the front of the cab, what you hear will be louder. The more speakers you add, the tighter and more directional the beam becomes. A 1X12 tends to spread sound all around, while a 2X12 spreads it around on one axis and focuses it along the other. A 4X12 focuses the beam along both axes. If you want a 2X12 to spread sound across a stage or auditorium, then you need to stand it with the speakers above and below each other. Then it will also spread less sound above and below the cab.

The second is a lesser effect, and happens if the amplifier is pushing the the speaker(s) towards the limit, so they start to compress and breakup. When you add more speakers, so that each speaker is handling less power, then it will operate in its more linear region, so the cone moves more freely and can put more sound out.

You can add this to the party bores' encyclopedia of useless information....

_________________
Great tones come in small glass jars!

Not at all useless to me, Zaphod, thanks!