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Hi guys I am new here,

(I Appologize if this is posted in the wrong category of forum, moderators please move if so)


Hi I have a couple of questions for you "Gurus of TONE" in here:

this is my gear right now:

My 1982 Gibson Les Paul Standard which have no mods yet except for a TONE-PROs bridge, plugged into a Marshall JCM2000 TSL 100watt with JCM900 4x12" 1960A cab(slant?) it seems to have the standard G12T-75 speakers

Here is my situation:

I feel the 100watt Marshall is way too loud for my needs, you see I live in an horizontal split-house with my neighbour
we are divided by a wall in the same house, 2 apartments side by in the same house .

Also I don't feel that there is TONE coming from that amp.. EditAfter reading this forum yesterday, I had try higher master-volume4-7/8ish and lower preamp-gain 7ish, and it was quite good thereafter BUT WAY TOO LOOUD

This could be a combination of pickups in the guitar or the amp with the wrong speakers, or just plain wrong amp.
Last thing is I am getting cold feet for this amp to break down, as I have read horror stories on web from these TSL/DSL amps.

My amp had to go to service when I first got it due to a Loud blowing sound!? in the amp I don't know what it was, but the amp got sent in for repair. Lately I have heard that kind of blowing sound coming from the amp, I had to turn the amp off completely to get rid of the sound.. Do you think that noise was due to tubes is failing or something?? I also blowed a main fuse lately trying to max out the clean channel with a loaned Hotplate..

I have always had Marshalls, starting with a solid state Marshall combo 50-60wattish, and then a real tube jcm900 combo. Later I bought a used jcm 900 4x12 cab, which started the dream of having a complete half-stack, so i bought the TSL-100 head to go with it and sold that jcm900 combo to friend.

But I have sometimes wondered how it would sound with new pickups in the guitar, and with youtube demos coming, I am strongly considering a pair of WCR PAFstyle -pickups in my Gibson Les Paul Standard.

After I started reading the comments in the some videos posted on youtube, that also got me interested in Amplifier clones because I really got blown away by the sound and Tone comming from their amps, and soon learned the fact that the sound was from vintage amps just.. I read more about plexi, and JTM45s and 18watts and bluebreakers
I always thought that there was only Marshall, Fender, Peavy, MESA, and a couple of other brands, but clearly not..

Clones got me really interested, and now I am considering changing my Marshall for something with more TONE, because I find my TSL a bit harsh sounding..
Especially after I tried the Marshall Vintage modern,
I knew that New marshalls would not doo something for either my taste or wallet.
I have considerd the vintage modern as it's modelling a plexi/jt45ish sound and could get into jcm800ish territory, and it was no channel switching amp just the lovely sound of el34 and Kt66. Also I don't play so much Metal-music any more, I am more into blues, blues-rock, rock and hard rock music from the 60-70s to 90s interest me the most now.. and the classic amps was more my thing I found out..

So I am considering A Trinity 18Watt style amplifier

Also perhaps changing the cab-spoeakers for Scumbacks? Perhaps a cab from Stoneage 2x12C with possibility for open back also??
There are way to many choices, I am completely lost right now..
My first choice was JTM-45 with Avatar cab, but then I found out that Avatar would not ship to Norway, so accidentally stumbled upon Lopo-cabs , an Now I have found Stoneage, Scumbag, Swanson, vintage head-box and others.. too many variables I'm getting lost in the deep end of the sea.. and also Trinity makes cabs it seems.

I hope you guys can help me decide which way to go first?? amp, pickups, guitar cab, speakers, Tubes...
Also if there is something wrong with my Marshall 100watt right now Judging from my issues with it??

Thanks in advance

Also sorry for the long-winding post..


Regards
LesPaul_1982

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

Welcome to the forum. Lots of questions...

1. Your guitar is fine. Leave it alone. The cab is standard issue Marshall
2. I can tell you a 100 watt Marshall amp with half stack in an apartment is too much!! I still have one gathering 'collector dust'!
3. IMO Stay away from Solid state modelling amps
4. Get a simple Marshall lower power clone 18-35 watt amp (18 watt or JTM45). If you gig consider the JTM but a 18 watt can hang pretty well.
5. Use good tubes
6. Get a 212 with great speakers. Listen to our Speaker test posting. http://www.trinityamps.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1273 We can make convertible one (212 open/close switchable from 212 to 112)

I'm sure more input to come.

_________________
Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Long winded post? I've never seen one here...

That guitar it everything's working properly should be killer through any decent amp. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

Like many Marshall's the JCM2000 series really needs to have the power staged pushed to get what many people feel is "good tone". This is especially true (IMO) for the TSL as it's a bit thin tonally (I like the DSL a little better - just a touch warmer overall). It does warm up when you push the power stage (as you mentioned in your post).

Unfortunately, in your situation that leaves you somewhat SOL to a degree. With that amp it's gonna be crazy loud when you hit that sweet spot. In my opinion nobody needs a 100w tube guitar amp these days unless you're playing a large hall with no PA. In reality, even the 15-20w range we play with in the Trinity world is pretty loud for stage volume. In fact, my 5w modded Valve Junior can keep up with a heavy-hitting drummer at a jam in a smaller room (but not clean...overdriven is no problem).

I have a HotPlate and I use it primarily with my 2204 & Laney GH100TI. It works fine at bringing things down to bedroom levels, but the tone does suffer to a degree. The more you attenuate, the more tonal impacts. This is true for all attenuators. It's a product of the circuitry as well as how the humar ean reacts to frequencies at different volume levels. But that's a much longer discussion.

With regards to your attempting to "max out" the clean channel on that amp, I'm not terribly surprised that you blew a fuse. It shouldn't happen really, but with those amps it's not surprising.

If you're seriously considering dumping the TSL for a lower powered "tone machine", I think the Plexi version of the Trinity 18 would be right up your alley. It's more in the hot-plexi territory gain & tone wise. The sIII version of the 18 is a little more laid back - more in the JTM45 gain, but with a bit more intensity when driven hard due to the character of the EL-84's. Another option is the "V6" version of either of these which will give you the option of switching between EL-84's or 6V6's. The 6V6's are a little mellower & not quite as loud. Makes for a nice sparkly clean.

With all that said, 18w is still pretty freakin loud for a duplex/apartment situation, but certainly not as insane as your TSL. If you're going to go that way adding the VRM option might be just what you need. That'll give you a variable output level without altering the tone as dramatically as an attenuator would.

The Triwatt is another beauty that will get you similar results, but it is a somewhat different animal than the 18. It's a much more tight & focused amp whereas the 18 is a more on the compressed & saggy side (i.e. vintage tube recitified Marshall-esque). The Triwatt also has a more "hi-fi" quality - more open & balanced sounding across the frequency spectrum.

The TC-15 will do the trick too, but it's a more Vox/Matchless feel. More "jangly" with a more searing top end when driven really hard.

I've build/played all of these, including the V6 version of the 18 watt (in both the sIII & Plexi configurations). For what you're looking for, I think the 18 is probably the ticket, most likely the Plexi version, with the VRM installed.

If you cab does have G12T-75's, a speaker change will probably help warm things up & take some of the edge off. Those are rather bright & edgy speakers & I think they sound terrible with the TSL/DSL (or any Marshall really), but that's my very subjective opinion. Plenty of people like them - they are probably the most recorded speaker of the last 30 years for a reason I guess. There's a ton of speaker options. There's some good comparison polls in one of the forums on here. Can't remember where they are exactly. It's very revealing as to how much difference speakers can make. It can radically change the character of an amp.

BTW, the comparison polls are in the "Clippage" forum. Too obvious so I missed it!

For your LP, one of that vintage probably has 300k tone pots which cut a lot of the highs out.

One of the standard LP mods (IF you use your tone and volume knobs, and for a lower watttage tube amp, you should to appreciate the capabilities) is to install an RS Guitarworks electronics replacement pots and caps kit wired 50's style.
The taper on the pots is MUCH more usable and the wiring change lets the highs through as you roll down the volume.

The Trinity sIII gives a nice Marshall sound at reasonable volumes. I've built an sIII and SIIIv6. Just finishing up a Triwatt

Hey thanks for the answers guys,

I can try and clarify what I would like to have sound/Tone-wice:

On youtube there is a German guy whoose playing that Marshall 67' JTM-45 and that old 59 Lespaul burst, I think he is called Udo Pipper (youtube nick is "texascannonball") (from those gitarre und bass magazines)
Now that guy REALLY has a nice sound/Tone, Incredible!!

Check theese links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvr6pZQiaSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA0LtEla ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8kfI8H- ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCLYlzY ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zm66P-P ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSAudDWxO8&NR=1

Actually I think "Lbet" posted a comparison with Lespaul and a Trinity 18watt sIII amp for that "Udo Pipper" Tone.
But the link does not seem to work any more, a couple more of his links is broken it seems?! I would really like to hear those clips
viewtopic.php?t=755

I am also Digging "Lbet"s Stormy Monday-clip it's absolutely FANTASTIC!!!
Really like that Duane Allman sound/Tone from it, is it because of the pickups he is using ?? I found out, on this forum that he used WCR-Darkburst PAF's on that clip with a Lespaul Custom


So after hearing theese sound clips on Trinity-site of 18watt

I am thinking of a:
Trinty 18watt sIII with v6 option and powerscaling installed,and built by Trinity .
I think that would give me plenty of Tone's to choose a sound for my playing/noodling

What I also would like to have, is an amp that takes pedals really well. You see, I am thinking about building a couple of BYOC-pedals so I can moore tones:

A Fuzz-face (with Germanium OP-Amps) for thatsweet Hendrix fuzz-face sound,
A Tonebender (power-saged) for that Black Sabbath tone and perhaps Jimmi-Page (Led-Zep)..
Jimmi Page used a Sola-Sound- Tonebender Mk2 Professional(but Jimmi Page did use a modified Tonebender I think).
Tony Iommi used a Dallas Arbiter Rangemaster(not a Tonebender), but it was modified.
And I have read in the Marshallamp-forum that some people get really close with a power-saging Tone-bender Fuzz-clone pedal for his syrupy thick Tone.. instead of using a stock Rangemaster-clone, But a standard(not modified) Rangemaster would perhaps get it well also..
edit Hmmm forgot to add a Wah-pedal from BYOC -it seems to have lots of options on it, which the original crybaby did not have


Thanks in advance for all answers

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

The 18W takes pedals quite well. I have found lots of people saying otherwise but my sIII loves all my pedals.

I had a great combo of tele > wah > fuzzface > univibe > sIII going the other day.

Jcny,

I think that my Neck pickup is kind of muddy-sounding, not as clear as it could be, and I am Seriously GAS'ing for a WCR Crossroads-Neck pickup and a Darkburst-Bridge pickup
Especially with a upgraded wiring set from WCR/RS-guitarworks with upgraded cap's
I read all the time that theese pickups clear up really well when you turn down your guitar-volume. Right now I have to go as low as around 1.5-2 on the volume-knob , then I loose all the sound/Tone and volume..
But this could be a caracteristic of the amp, for all I know

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

+1 for the WCRs.
I have a "betts set" in my 73 lp. Fantastic pups. Very open..not muddy at all.
Stew

Before investing in new pickups, try upgrading your pots & switching to the 50's wiring. Might give you what you need. That said, I've heard plenty of people complaining about the stock neck pickup in many Gibsons being muddy - myself included.

Both of my SG's had that issue. I've swapped pickups in both of them - a set of Jon Moore's in my Standard & humbucker-sized P90's in my Special. There's some (crappy) clips in the Clippage section of my Standard ripping through the Triwatt.

If you do decide on a pickup swap at some point I'd recommend touch base with Jon (www.tonefordays.com ). He'll custom wind a set to your specs for a very reasonable price.

BTW, the Triwatt can sound rather similar to Iommi's tone on the first Sabbath album, even without the Rangemaster. Just FYI...

Hi guys,

You are probably right regarding the pickup-wiring and that its pot's might be 300k. The problem seem to be when I try to get a good Woman-tone its just getting too thick and muddy.. , And I allmost never like the tone of my neck pickup, I know that a neck pickup should sound real good, and I also feel that my bridge pickup is sometimes a bit harsh and shrill sounding.. But that could also be the amp with its tubes...

But I am really GAS'ing for a "New amp" first

That Triwatt did sound quite nice The Black sabbath sound/Tone I am looking for is from the first record I think, some songs comes to mind I think they are called "the Wizard" and "Evil woman". But this is not the main sound I am looking for, the main sound is:
Rock' roll sound, 60-70s and blues, blues-rock
I like ZZ-top,Led zep,Allman brothers,Cream,Clapton,Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix and lots of other artists and also Wolfmother hehe
And I also like some Trash/metal like: Pantera,Metallica,Rammstein,Machinehead,Biohazard but I don't play that much of this kind of music, some Pantera though but this trash/ metal sound/tone is not a priority..

All of Stephen's amps seems like real nice amps, it's a hard choice!! LOL

But I am really Partial to the marshall-sound from a 18watt sIII, I really dig that JTM-45 sound coming from it
And thats why I really would like to hear "Lbet"s take on theese youtube-clips with this amp. But as I said the links seem to be dead now..

Do you think the VRM is just like a Ultimate-attenuator on this amp?
No offence, but I did not like that Hotplate, its just so thin and solid-state ish
But VRM seems to be better, I really like that it retains the amps Tone to quite low level, from what I have read, especially with Stephens amps it seems.. One more reason to choose a Trinity amp

"Stephen" could I ask your opinion of buying an amp with theese features:
A Trinity 18watt sIII with boost, VRM, and 6v6 switching
any pros or cons about that combo?

Thanks in advance

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

I've built an SIIIv6 kit (head version) with the VVR and the boost (switch on back panel, not pedal operated).

It's loaded with old Mullards and GE's for the pre's and Sgt. Overdrives Saratov russian military 6n-14n-ep's for power tubes and it sounds pretty good in my opinion

Everything works well together and the setup gives you a lot of versitility

"Jcny"

Do you think there is hope for guitar-Tone even if I don't go for mullards and NOS?
I hope that the diffrences you hear from your amp wth NOS and mullards, compared to a ready made amp from Trinity, is only for the "real tube-entuisiasts with Golden ears"
I mean NOS-tubes and stuff ?? I don't think I have "Golden ears"

Now you must remember that I am still using a New marshall JCM-2000 TSL 100watt, with circuit-boards.. Not handwired stuff
And I have never heard a vintage amp before, except demoes on the internet..
The closest to a vintage sounding amp I have heared is the Marshall Vintage Modern 50watt with the greenback reissue-cab(425)
It was quite nice sounding when I compared it to my amp, but I soon lost interest when I found all theese clones of vintage amps..

"jcny" Have You tried your sIII v6 boost 18watt amp with some pedals? Did you like it, was it transparant sounding, and not messing with the Tone of the amp? Does the VRM mess with the Tone of your amp when you use it?? Or is it really transparant
The experinences with the VRM is really Important for me because I might be using the VRM all the time..

"Kurtlives" is quite happy with his amp and some pedals.
Just Interested in finding out why some people is not satisfied when using pedals with their amps? Of course there is people who don't like pedals at all, so I realise you can't please em all..

Thanks in advance

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

You really need to 50's wire that les paul 1st. Then build an sIII.

Then prepare to buy a triwatt and a TC-15 and a 5e3 cause my friend you will be hooked.

And be sure to get the VRM; the sIII is no slouch when it comes to volume, it won't break your windows like a 100w stack, but with a 4x12 it'll shake a room pretty darn good.

LP, sorry for the delay, trying to get my Triwatt up and running.

You don't need NOS tubes to get tone, the right new production tubes sound nice.
It's usually a matter of small differences, I started out the SIIIv6 with new production tubes, got some NOS from sgt. overdrive (real good prices and suggestions for tube selection) got a couple of deals on Mullard pre's.
All sounded good, the NOS are supposed to last longer and sound "better" in details. The more I played, the more I could start to tell the small differences between tubes.

To me, the VRM sounds pretty much the same, just not as loud. If I remember correctly, it allows the power tubes to go into the "nice" distortion at lower volume levels. An 18 watt Marshall derived circuit is all about power tube distrtion, not preamp distortion.

Only pedal I have is a Dano delay and I think it sounds good with the amp, I'm basically a guitar, cord and amp guy. You can set the controls of an sIII so that you can control a lot from the guitar.
Roll back the guitar volume, relatively clean--roll up the volume and the overdrive starts, pick harder-- more drive, solfter gets you less

I think this is why people may not be big on pedals with the sIII, you can do so much with just the guitar and the amp

Hope this helps

Thanks guys,

"jcny and others" Well no need to appologize for the delay in replying
I'm getting a bit wicer in the tube-buisnizz now, thanks for answering all my newbie-questions
I'm also a kind of guitar, cord and amp guy tHough I have newer had a quality-pedal , that's why I 'm also interested in those BYOC-pedals, Boutiqe-tone for low dollars, nice
There are some really fat-sounding pedals on youtube from a guy called Blues Saraceno, he does a lot of demos for Mojave-amps, the pedals
are called "Dirty Boy" using only Germanium-transistors. But I think I may have seen a price around 370-530$$$ Yiiikess for one pedal..

Regarding building a Kit, well...
I don't dare to try a amplifier-Kit, too afraid of electrocuting myself!! brrrrr... That's why I would like to buy a prebuilt amp from Stephen at Trinity amps
Also I would like to play the amp as soon as possible..

Also Would it be possible for mr. "lbethune" to upload those sIII clips in this thread again? Pretty pleease with cherry on top???
viewtopic.php?t=755
("Lbet" try at a comparison with Lespaul and a Trinity 18watt sIII amp for that "67' JTM-45 Udo Pipper" Tone.)

-- -- --
Also hoping for an Answer to this issue:
Last thing is I am getting cold feet for this amp to break down, as I have read horror stories on web from these TSL/DSL amps.

My amp had to go to service when I first got it due to a Loud blowing sound!? in the amp I don't know what it was, but the amp got sent in for repair. Lately I have heard that kind of blowing sound coming from the amp, I had to turn the amp off completely to get rid of the sound.. That has happened again(1- week ago) but this time it went away with only flipping the standby switch for a few minutes (1-2min)
It's allways been a Loud Blowing (kind of White-Noice sound?) when it happens, it's really anoying...
Do you think this noise is due to tubes is failing or something??

Can I ask whats a reasonable resale price on theese(JCM2000 TSL-100watt head) amps is in the US or Canada, So I can try and figure a resale price in Norwegian kroner.

Thanks

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

The blowing could be tubes but i doubt it... ive had a form of it myself... for me it ended up with crackling and it ended up being the screen resistors in the preamp section... happened in my PCB fender hot rod deluxe; it's happening again actually... I hate PCB's!! impossible to get to the problem and really hard to prevent them! I don't agree with the consensus that PTP sounds better than PCB but I do believe that it certainly makes an amp much more reliable. Not to mention easier to work on/modify.

I couldn't agree with you more! Between tone and volume pots on my strat i can strum clean and lead dirty as hell without touching the amp or any pedals.

I'll see what I can do to find 67JTM45.mp3

_________________
Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

Coco, That's Great that would be really nice

Also could you please check that all clips with 18watt speaker comparison clips work? A lot of soundclip links are broken allready thats why I ask about them...
The Triwatt is also not working on the official soundclips-page??

You see I would really like to hear what it can do with my existing Marshall JCM-900 1960A speaker cab which is loaded with g12t-75 will sound like?
Using the 18watt espesially with a Les Paul standard, and dirty-sound(full-bore crunch on the 18watt sIII one clip with jumpered and one without) and clean also??

I'm allmost set on buying a prebuilt Trinity sIII or sIII-plexi with VRM from you right now
Could you please get back to me with the price of a 18watt head-amp and head cabinet built by you,
also with VRM installed, and also the estimate of shipping costs of the readybuilt amp with ready-built headcab in the smooth Black-tolex(Not the elephant variant which is used on my Marshall JCM900 cab) shipped to Norway
Throw in a price with sIII with v6 also with VRM ofcourse, allthough I am a little undecided about the v6 yet.
ALSO very important we use 220-240volts in Norway for power


Then a qouple of more Questions???:
Is it only with sIII v6 that I get a footswitch?
If I understand you correctly is the sIII v6 just the same sound/Tone as a 18watt sIII , just with more options for more sound/Tone ?
If I have a 18watt v6 with Marshall Tone/sound and I flip a switch, would I then have a deluxe/blackface Sound/Tone ? is this coorect or am I far out on the fields now
Does the standard sIII come with a boost /clean-boost switch? or is that only with sIII v6 or sIII-Plexi ??
Would it be possible to get a 18watt sIII with the jtm45 voice on the normal channel(for that sweet singing tone) and the pleixi voice on the TMB-channel(for that full-bore Marshall crunch) ??
OR is that just NOT possible without modding the amp each time you want change between jtm45voice or plexi-voice ????
The VRM is it fully transparant, much much better than a Hotplate and allmost better than a Ultimate attenuator at high/low volume??
And getting getting the added benefit(with VRM installed) that it is allways in the amp, and I dont have to drag around an attenuator seprately or atleast buy an expensive attenuator like the Ultimate attenuator??

Thanks a lot in advance


- - - - - -Also just some friendly customer tip for future sales- - - - - - - -
If you on the sound-clips pages clearly stated (Update with more information):
This Information should be under each corresponding clip, or before the clip for all all Trinity amp clips..

Which guitar was used with which pickup(bridge pickup/Neck pick pickup/ booth pickups Tone rolled of or not
The pickup-maker installed ie: Gibson- Burst buckers,WCR-darkburst,WCR-crossroads,Seymore Ducan-Antique PAF's, Fender blues pickups for strats etc, etc... )
The amp which it was made with:
Was it a sIII-Plexi, was it a 18watt TMB , or was it a 18watt sIII v6 settings used on the amp was the channels jumpered, was boost used
Which speaker Loaded(ie: Tone Tubby , Scumback M75 - H75 - Scumnico 12 , Celestion G12H30,Jensen,Eminence Private Jack et etc...) used for the clips
or Cab-maker (ie Tone Tubby-Bomb, Avatar-vintage,Fender-pine-cab,Marshall-JCM-900 etc etc...) 1X12, 2X12, 4X12, 4X10 etc..
Was any effects used, before or after mixdown (added reverb?) or was it dry..

Mojave ampworks has a quite good infomation style here, also Scumback-speakers, but you could be the best there is in buisnizz

It woud be awesome and (honest) information for the interested buyers

_________________
Regards
LesPaul_1982

I found the 'JTM45" sIII clip & re-posted. I also checked all the links here to make sure they were playing properly & they seem fine.


viewtopic.php?t=755

Cant argue more info would be better.

As for info on a custom build, just email me & we'll work out something.

_________________
Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps