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 Post subject: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:05 pm 
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My deluxe started to get progressively crunchy and finally the volume dropped to near zero. Does this sound like a power tube failure?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:13 am 
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Could be a bunch of different things, including that. You need to measure voltages at key points in the circuit to find clues.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:53 am 
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Are the key points and desired voltages posted somewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:05 am 
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On both the layout and the schematic in the resources section

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Here's what I measure:

Mains 120.1 VAC

On standby, B+ at first cap 542.6 VDC

With VRM on max:
First cap : 393.2
Rectifier pin 8 : 395
Rectifier pin 6 : 0
Rectifier pin 4 : 0
Rectifier pin 2 : 20.5 VAC
Pilot light : 3.1 VAC

Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 pm 
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That's only for the rectifier. What about the rest of the tubes?

Does this volume loss happen every time a little while after you switch on, or is it permanent? If it's not permanent, then you need to take readings before and after the volume loss.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Today there was no loss of volume, but some other unusual symptoms:
Normal channel
- tone on 1, vol on 11 : loud hum
- tone on 1, vol on 12 : loud squeal
- tone on 5, vol on 10 : quiet squeal starting
- tone on 6, vol on 10 : loud crackling
- tone on 12, vol on 10+ : loud squeal and crackling

Bright channel
- tone on 1, vol on 10+ : loud hum
- tone on 6, vol on 11 : squeal
- tone on 6, vol on 12 : crackling
- tone on 12, vol on 3 : squeal
- tone on 12, vol on 4+ : loud pop and crackling

Here are all the voltages (VRM on max)
* Loud hum when test probe applied to pin
** Voltage jumping around
All measurements VDC except where noted

Pin V1
1 189
2 0
3 1.6
4 3.1VAC
5
6 191.3
7 336
8 1.5
9 0.3VAC

Pin V2
1 189.7
2 0.1*
3 1.3
4 3.1VAC
5
6 233.1
7 16
8 47.9
9 3.1VAC

Pin V3
1 -
2 0
3 381.5
4 0.3VAC
5 45 – 50**
6 67 – 69**
7 3.1VAC
8 21.7

Pin V4
1 -
2 0
3 383.5
4 0.3VAC
5 15 – 18**
6 15 – 20**
7 3.1VAC
8 21.7

Pin V5
1
2 20.5VAC
3
4 347.5VAC
5
6 348.3VAC
7
8 395


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Tube swap time.
Start with the preamp tubes then move to the output tubes.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Plate voltages on V1 and V2 are to high.
Grid voltage on V3 and V4 is not there it should be about 338vdc.
Check your connection at the board between R22,R21 and C12 should be about 338vdc.
If you have the correct voltage on the board but not the tube, suspect a cold solder joint or broken wire.
Its hard to have high plate voltages on V1 or V2 if anything was wrong at the board connection R22,R21 and C12. As V1 and V2 plates are fed through that point.
You show an AC signal on Pin 4 V3 and V4 where there should be a grid voltage of about 338vdc.
Your B+ is correct so its not the problem, its the grid voltage thats the problem. check your connections on V3 pin 4, if you are wired according to the layout..

Or at least thats the way I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Taz13 wrote:
Grid voltage on V3 and V4 is not there it should be about 338vdc.

Grid voltage or screen voltage? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Screen grid it would seem.
Sure hope you don't have that HV on the control grid.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Taz13 wrote:
Grid voltage on V3 and V4 is not there it should be about 338vdc.
Check your connection at the board between R22,R21 and C12 should be about 338vdc.


I measure 353.4 at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:50 pm 
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kurtlives wrote:
Tube swap time.
Start with the preamp tubes then move to the output tubes.


Tried this (preamp and power tubes only as I didn't have a spare rectifier tube) - no change.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:44 pm 
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jharasym wrote:
Taz13 wrote:
Grid voltage on V3 and V4 is not there it should be about 338vdc.
Check your connection at the board between R22,R21 and C12 should be about 338vdc.


I measure 353.4 at that point.

If you have voltage there but not at pin 4 V3&4
then I would think either a cold solder joint or broken wire.

Quote:
Grid voltage or screen voltage?


Ok How about 6V6 Pin 4 Grid Number 2 (screen) voltage should be about 338 vdc.
It was a long day of commisioning and no tubes in those ccts. I agree I should have said screen :oops:

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Fantasy Noise is what my shop of dreams is called and was the only way to beat my addiction, like many here I suffer from G.A.S.


Tele's make the best noise


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:56 pm 
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I don't know what I was smoking when I took the earlier measurements. Now I'm getting 353 VDC at pin 4 of V3 and V4.

Can any of the squealing/crackling at high tone/volume settings be related to the VRM?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Taken from a tramp posting. This was Zaphods suggestion.
Quote:
Guys, start by shorting out the VRM. We need to eliminate that from the equation and first get the main part of the amp working. Solder a shorting wire from the VRM end of 100 ohm resistor R23 to the + end of the second filter cap C12.

With the VRM out of the way, you should have a nice loud amp. We can deal with the VRM later.


Thats for the Tramp, for the Tweed it will be slightly different. What is being done is, you are jumpering the input of the VRM to the output of the VRM. Then you have a normal B+. If your problem goes away, it was the VRM, if it doesn't it is something else.

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Tele's make the best noise


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:53 pm 
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Shorted out the VRM - no change.

The other change I had made was installing the DC blocking caps on the inputs. Could these be the culprit?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Jumper them out and see what happens.
And maybe its time to order a new rectifier tube.

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Fantasy Noise is what my shop of dreams is called and was the only way to beat my addiction, like many here I suffer from G.A.S.


Tele's make the best noise


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Finally getting back to this. Volume is very low.

Installed new rectifier, new power tubes and swapped in some other preamp tubes (V1=7025, V2=12AY7)

Here's what I get:
V1
Pin 1 : 175
Pin 3 : 1.45
Pin 6 : 179.8
Pin 8 : 1.45

V2
Pin 1 : 125.8
Pin 3 : 2.0
Pin 6 : 190.6
Pin 8 : 70.8

V3
Pin 3 : 380.4
Pin 4 : 350.7
Pin 8 : 22.1

V4
Pin 3 : 393.9
Pin 4 : 350.7
Pin 8 : 22.1

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosing
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Pin 8 v2 seems really high for a cathode. Could it be open? That resistor might need replacing.
This is off the top of my head though.


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